"Which is right? Islam, Christianity, secularization or Atheism?" None of the above. No religion is RIGHT. They are opinions. I like the color blue, and nothing you say will make be think other wise. I don't care if you like red. It's an opinion.

This is the last thing I will state on this subject. >>Belief - confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. >>When you believe in something, by definition you DO NOT have PROOF of it. If you had proof you would not have to believe in it. No matter how many books you quote from or how much thought you put into this. Nobody can prove anything about any religion, therefore you can't say one is "right" over another.

John, does your lack of belief nullify my beliefs? No, they do not. Does your lack of faith in a higher power negate the fact that One exists? You must have all knowledge of all things throughout the Universe in order to be so adamant about religion. Where does all that come from? Who or what turned you off from believing in God. We all are born with an innate desire to worship something and we all have the Law of God written on our hearts, such as "do not lie" "do not steal" "do not murder" etc. Even tribes in the remotest villages of Africa and the Amazon have judged each other with respect to lying, stealing and killing. Who taught them? How do you explain that? Do you think the "evolutionary" theory rationalizes the existence of higher intelligence in humans over animals, though there are no transitional fossils to support their the theory? What do you have to say about that?

Tell you what Gilbert, let me give you something else to talk about. Instead of proving that Christians are correct, please try the following. Prove to me that the Wiccan religion is wrong, with out saying it's wrong because it's not Christian, because the founders of that religion had no problems taking most of their holidays for their own. To quote someone far older than myself "Christians dismiss 999 other religions as false, I only dismiss one more and for the same reasons."

For me to logically answer your request, I had to resort to learn about Wicca and its history. The following is a brief history and background of the Wiccan belief system and practices of those involved in it: " History and Background of Wicca Wicca is a common and much older name for witchcraft. The term witchcraft has been defined in different ways. In the past it has most often referred to the human harnessing of supernatural powers for the malevolent purpose of practicing black magic. For this reason, witchcraft, sorcery, and magic are nearly synonymous. Witchcraft is not, however, synonymous with Satanism. Not all witches worship Satan, and in fact most do not believe in Satan at all. Nor do they believe in hell, evil, or original sin. These groups believe that Satan is an imaginary creation of the Christian Church. If they believe in Satan at all they will tell you that the devil is just another Christian diety. They also do not believe in demons, and their deities are considered to be "imminent", or within each of us, meaning that everyone is actually deity. A few groups do, however, worship Satan. During the Middle Ages, witchcraft experienced a great revival. The supernatural became very popular and superstition abounded. If someone wanted to become a witch, there was an initiation process. Some of the techniques were simple and some were complicated, but there were usually two requirements. The first was that the would-be witch must join of his or her own free will. The second requirement was that the prospective witch must be willing to worship the devil. Modern day witches, however, are not typically Satan worshipers. Much like the New Age Movement, most Wiccans do not accept the belief that there is good or evil. They argue that there are only forces that must be balanced. Evil is just a necessary part of good and the negative can be transmuted into the positive (a basic belief of medieval alchemy). While political views are not universal among witches, most support neo-tolerance. There is no absolute truth. What's true for you may not be true for me, so everything is true, just pick one. They also are strong supporters of women's rights and matriarchy, sexual "freedom" (including homosexuality, polyamory, non-monogamy, sexual activity by teens), abortion, and the abolition of Christianity from public life, especially in schools and governmental functions. In recent years there have been lawsuits filed by Pagans against such things as "In God We Trust", student-led prayer in schools, the Ten Commandments, and Christian symbols, such as the Cross, in city and county seals. However, many are also active in getting the schools to teach the Wiccan holidays (Halloween, Winter Solstice, etc.), pagan elements of "Earth Day", and Pagan symbolism. An ally in the fight to introduce pagan earth worship into the schools is found in the United Nations as they are working to promote the Earth Charter in education, a document that contains much pagan tradition and doctrine. Modern day Wiccans tend to distance themselves from Christianity because of what they claim is the proliferation of a patriarchal male-dominated religion that has historically ignored the role of women in the church and society. Traditionally, however, there have been as many, if not more, male witches/sorcerers than female in some pagan circles (e.g., the Druids). While not a religion for women only, today witchcraft is very much a female dominated religion. The definitive start of the modern witchcraft era began with Gerald Gardner (1884-1964). As an archaeologist, Gardner had accumulated an extensive occult background. While in Southeast Asia, he learned the secrets of the Malaysian magical knife and became a Mason and a nudist. In 1939 when he returned to England an avid occultist, he became a member of the Corona Fellowship of Rosicrucians where he met Dorothy Clutterbuck. Clutterbuck initiated Gardner into witchcraft. Gordon wrote two books, one of which he claimed was to record accurately the history and practice of witchcraft, as he felt it was dying out. J. Gordon Melton stated in his review of Gardner's book Witchcraft Today, "Research suggests that Gardner did not discover a pre-existing Witchcraft group". A paper by Gardner published by Ripley's Believe it or Not disclosed that Gardner took the magical resources he acquired in Asia and a selection of Western magical texts and created a new religion centered upon the worship of the Mother-Goddess." This was an important beginning in witchcraft, for it is the worship of the Mother-Goddess that has become the focus of modern witchcraft. From Gardner's writings, greatly influenced by Aleister Crowley, Theosophy, Freemasonry, ritual/sex magic, and numerous other occult sources, emerged modern day Wicca."

Further elaboration is necessary to properly address this question now with information about Beliefs and Practices of Wiccan: " Wicca Beliefs and Practices There are a wide variety of beliefs and practices in modern day Wicca. However, despite the pluralism and diversity, distinct principles derived from Gardnerian Wicca are common to most modern witches. Some of these beliefs are as follows: * Everyone has the divine (or goddess) within. * One should develop natural gifts for divination or occult magic (often spelled 'magick' by occultists.) * Divine forces or nature spirits are invoked in rituals. * The Goddess, as either a symbol or a real entity, is the focus of worship. * Nature and the earth are sacred manifestations of the Goddess. * Everyone has his or her own spiritual path to follow. * Rituals and celebrations are linked to the seasons and moon phases. * Meditation, visualization, invocation (calling on forces or gods/goddesses), chanting, burning candles and special rituals trigger a sense of the mystical, thus reinforcing the core belief system. These beliefs will often be mixed with a combination of mystical traditions, Celtic or Norse paganism, Greek and Roman goddess worship, ancient Egyptian spirituality, Eastern Shamanism, or even Native American spiritual practices depending on the group. All of these groups revere nature, support peace, and believe society cannot be at peace if we are out of harmony with nature or are mistreating Mother Earth (also known as Gaia, the name of a pagan goddess given to Earth). This aspect of Wicca is very similar to the New Age Religion supported by the United Nations and many of it's members, NGO's and leaders. Divination techniques such as tarot cards, astrology, runes, the I Ching (from Chinese Taoism), clairvoyant or psychic readings, candle magick and other occult practices are not only common but encouraged by most groups. Similar to Hinduism, the serpent is believed by Wiccans to be a symbol of eternal life and female spiritual awakening or power. In Hinduism, yoga and meditation results in enlightenment from awakening the kundalini, or power known as the serpent power believed to be coiled at the base of the spine. Other symbols used in witchcraft are: * Pentagram and pentacle - A 5-pointed star used for protection, spells, conjuring, etc. * The Ankh - Egyptian cross-like symbol with a loop at the top associated with the worship of Isis. * The Crescent Moon - A symbol of the Goddess also used in Islam. * Crystals - believed to contain healing and spiritual properties. Crystals are also used by many other new age cults. One hurdle that will have to be crossed in witnessing to a person involved in Wicca is their lack of belief in a need for forgiveness or salvation. To the witch, there is no sin therefore no need for forgiveness. There is no need for salvation, as there is nothing to be saved from. The main tenet of Wicca is the "Wiccan Rede" which states "And it harm none, do as ye will". Basically, as long as you don't hurt anyone, anything goes. Of course, views of what actually causes harm vary from person to person. Most also believe that whatever you do will come back to you three-fold, so it pays to be careful. Some, however, believe that it is sometimes acceptable to cause harm as long as you are willing to accept the karmic consequence. Views of an afterlife vary widely among groups. Witches do not believe in a heaven or hell and will usually espouse the concept of karma and endless reincarnation. Backed up by "memories" of "past lives" they insist the idea of living only once is ridiculous. Others believe in reincarnation until enlightenment, or endless rebirth until such time as the person is enlightened enough to pass on to some other existence. Again, what makes a person enlightened varies from person to person. Still others will openly admit they have no idea what will happen after death and say the will find out when they get there. As you can see, the beliefs of Wiccans fit very well into the humanist religion that has become so widespread in modern society. As with other humanist religions everything goes as long as it doesn't oppose their claim to being god/godess or hold them accountable to a higher power. It is this point that makes Christianity the only faith they will bend the "anything goes" rule for. To them it is intolerant to believe in an absolute truth and they will often take it as an insult to be told there is evil in the world and we all sin. This is one of the biggest obstacles to sharing your faith with Wiccans and other humanist groups."

All religion is right, and yet wrong. We are human, and therefore intrisicaly flawed when compaired to the Divine, God, or whatever name you give to it. As humans are a diverse species, so must their belief systems be diverse, based on environment, culture and societal norms and values. Religion is right because it works for the individual, or rather should work for the individual. It is also wrong because it is ultimately a human invention. While it helps the human being try to understand things he cannot possibly comprehend, and therefore keep his sanity, it is still limited. Nothing human is an absolute authority, only God is absolute.

Thank you very much for proving my point. After coping and pasting in 3 pages of text describing the Wiccan religion you never did what I asked you to do. "Prove to me that the Wiccan religion is wrong." You can not prove any religion is wrong compared to another. The reason is simple, anything you say can be used by either side of the argument. For example "You are wrong because you do not believe in my God." "Your ideas are wrong." "Your book is wrong." The more you break it down the more it ends up sounding like a couple of grade school kids arguing on a playground about who's dad can beat up who.

Alright, wiccan religion is right! There, are you satisfied? I doubt it. In order for anyone to "prove" anything, they must use evidences that are based upon fact, truth and relevancy. When I use the Bible, which has stood the test of time much longer than your tirades of unbelief, I am assured that it alone defends itself perfectly and needs no assistance from me. When I did that "cut and paste" of the foregoing material, it was more to "level the playing field" for all involved as well as any spectators watching from the bleachers. I personally had run out of time to use the material as a springboard from which to speak and had to leave it for other responsibilities. Have you read the whole Bible, or just pieces of it? Have you investigated this faith on which I stand thoroughly to see whether or not your arguments are founded on conjecture and other people's opinions? Why do you really contend with me on this issue? What is eating at you from the inside to speak so loathingly of this relationship I exhibit with Jesus Christ?

Gilbert, I don't feel anyone here is attacking your relationship with Christ...take a step back before you proclaim yourself a martyr here. What people have a problem with is your attack on all things Un-Christian. You argue that none of us are inclined to prove Christianity is wrong because we do not possess absolute knowledge. I think John was simply trying to point out that you do not have that absolute knowledge yourself either. Hence the fact that he said you can use one comment to argue either side of the scenario. I also find it funny that you immediately attack the lack of faith in others when they have made no comments about the state of their faith. As for the posting of what appears to be a the majority of the Wikipedia article on the Wiccan religion, that was beyond necessary and was entirely fruitless. I could be wrong, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that John chose Wicca as a random Non-Christian religion to make a point, not to argue the side of the Wiccan religion. Your Blog Title is "Which is right? Islam, Christianity, secularization or Atheism?". If you are going to have that as a title wouldn't it make sense to actually mention the varying faiths in your blog? Instead you only make reference to a Christian website. In reality you should also post sites with discussion groups on Islam and Atheism as well as Christianity and Secularized groups. Then giving the reader Information in regards to the varying faiths so he can then form his/her own answer to the question you have proposed. With the Information and website you have provided you can only justly ask "Is Christianity right?" I am not sure if your form of "witnessing" is something you feel works or not, but I can tell you from experiences I have had from both Christians who have done vast amounts of witnessing, and from Non-Christians who were on the receiving end of that witnessing, All would agree that the best way to witness would be in professing the strengths of Christianity, you however seem to spend your energy attacking and cutting down anything non Christian. You usually don't capture the ear of a listener by beating them with a bible, but by explaining how Christianity has enhanced your life and the lives of people you know. The other big fault I have noticed here, is your complete ability to level with anyone and actually engage in mature two sided discussion. You have chosen instead to propose a question, and Immediately upon receiving an answer from someone you roll up the catapults and infantry and immediately open fire. You also pussyfoot around answering any question that anyone proposes. It reminds me heavily of those horrible interviews i have seen regarding Scientology. They go on a rampage about how Scientology is correct and that others are "lost". They usually state "you are either with us or not" "you are either in the know, or you are not". Immediately upon questions of the particular details of their faith and what it is that empowers them or what drives them to spread the word of Scientology, they instead immediately begin attacking the interviewer, with questions like "what are you so afraid of ?" and "why are you so unwilling to open your eyes". Again, immediately attacking someone who inquires about Christianity is not a healthy approach to getting your point across, it just makes you look like a belligerent and bigoted Tyrant who feels his own word is above those he engages in debate with. It's one thing to be passionate in your beliefs, but keep in mind, no one debates that Hitler was passionate in his own beliefs either.

Hello JZ! You have made some valid points and I welcome them. I have noticed that when I have posted subjects for discussion elsewhere, there are little or no comments. Here, these subjects push people's buttons and therefore set up for good discussions. I would encourage you to become an author, if you are not already, and publish some of these viewpoints made here for discussion. As for the narrowness of my message and intentions therewith, I have to admit that I am a novice in the field and have a lot to learn. I usually step on people's toes when I make comments, understandably as my feet are size sixteen! All humor aside, I made the statements I did to find where people are thinking and try to see what I can do to direct them to what is truth and not to what they perceived to be true based on a bad experience. Oftentimes generalities are misplaced when we have a bad experience with a representative of that entity, for example a catholic priest or a hell-fire preacher. Then the bad experience transforms into a wildfire that burns up anything else that could have been good. Time is short, JZ, and with all the challenges out there for people to get distracted with, there is no time to hide inside the shell of what we think will save us while the rest of the world "goes to Hell in a hand basket." So, I stir up the waters a little. People will believe what they want and choose the path they feel most comfortable. I just want to see if they really believe what they are saying or if they just like a good fight now and then. Peace!